57 replies to this topic

[mihapiha]

ahboyhan, on 14 January 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

hithanks for the valuable tips.my intention of 2 pumps is purely for redundancy not for the flow rate.i only have 1 dvd drive. that left me with 3.= 2 res + 1 rad. i may want a fan controller. anyway im not using my hotswap. can remove those 2 bay.should i consider a external 360 rad.. http://www.koolance....id=634currently have 2 x 200mm on top of the case please further enlighten.Thanks

i meant a 6cm deep radiator without the fans. you have on the top of your case room for a 6cm deep radiator + fans. (10cm) A little less because of the weird top look.
The Koolance is too small. Here a couple of 6 cm deep radiators:

http://www.aquatunin...0-Radiator.html
http://www.aquatunin...e-Radiator.html
http://www.aquatunin...-1-2-Black.html

Basically you only look at the dimensions. The bigger the radiator the better it's performance. They're all pretty much the same (high) quality...
My friend has the last in that list, and it would fit nicely into the HAF X case...

vitowito, on 14 January 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Why so many complications ? He just has an I7 and one Gtx580.one loop with a 240 rad is enough.. though go for a 360 rad. why 2 loops ? remember that the max temp diff of the liquid before the cpu and after should not be greater than 2deg CThese are some parts i recommend.

I couldn't disagree more. Two GTX480s couldn't be handled by a 360 radiator. I tried it. So: 240 radiator is simply not enough unless you put the demn radiator wind tunnel with a turbine blowing cool (air at it). 240 could handle only a single graphic card, and another 240 is necessary for the MB + CPU if any sort of higher overclock is planed. Therefore I still believe that a 360 radiator is not really enough, and the 2x 200mm radiator with two loops would be better, because the CPU loop wouldn't heat up the GPU loop. The dual-loop thing made a difference of about 8°C in my system. Since a pump died I was forced to make it a single loop, the result was pretty bad...

[Nofear]

mihapiha, on 13 January 2011 - 09:31 AM, said:

1. two loops are better. 2x 200mm radiator like this one: http://www.aquatunin...Xtreme-200.html
2. what pumps you use for so small loops really doesn't matter. The gain by getting the best and most powerful pump out there is pretty small...
3. never used the frozenQ T-virus, but any reservoir is good... They don't really differ much

Now I wanna know your budget. Because if you don't intend to spend 600 € or more on that a dual loop thing can't really be done

http://www.xtremesys...ad.php?t=254683

Two loops are most certainly not better... They cost more and they don't even perform as well in actual manufacturer tests (by swiftech)



Single loop is your best option, ahboyhan. I actually have a picture that could give you ideas about the layout of your loop



This is 3dchipset's rig (from the XS forums). He is cooling very similar components using waterblocks from EKWB.

As for other parts, a 360 rad should work well enough but if you plan on another graphics card in the future you might want a 480 radiator (personally I would go straight for a 480 if the dimensions would fit a HAF-X but if not a 360 plus either a 120 or 240) . I would also recommend any liang d5 pump with an acrylic top for fittings.

[ahboyhan]

hi

thanks all for the effort to think of a solution for me and even paste pictures for easier illustration.

i've read the article on xtremesystem with regards to single loop > dual loop.

@Nofear

may i know how does the loop flow??
example, rad -> res ->

Thanks

0958 hrs Singapore time.

[Nofear]

That loop in the pic goes like so:

Res=>Pump=>Rad=>Gpu=>Cpu=>Mobo

Although, as long as you have Res=>Pump the rest of the layout doesn't matter (the pump should always be below the res)

[jfrydom]

mihapiha, on 14 January 2011 - 09:02 PM, said:

i meant a 6cm deep radiator without the fans. you have on the top of your case room for a 6cm deep radiator + fans. (10cm) A little less because of the weird top look.
The Koolance is too small. Here a couple of 6 cm deep radiators:

http://www.aquatunin...0-Radiator.html
http://www.aquatunin...e-Radiator.html
http://www.aquatunin...-1-2-Black.html

Basically you only look at the dimensions. The bigger the radiator the better it's performance. They're all pretty much the same (high) quality...
My friend has the last in that list, and it would fit nicely into the HAF X case...




I couldn't disagree more. Two GTX480s couldn't be handled by a 360 radiator. I tried it. So: 240 radiator is simply not enough unless you put the demn radiator wind tunnel with a turbine blowing cool (air at it). 240 could handle only a single graphic card, and another 240 is necessary for the MB + CPU if any sort of higher overclock is planed. Therefore I still believe that a 360 radiator is not really enough, and the 2x 200mm radiator with two loops would be better, because the CPU loop wouldn't heat up the GPU loop. The dual-loop thing made a difference of about 8°C in my system. Since a pump died I was forced to make it a single loop, the result was pretty bad...

Miha i completely disagree with you on your statement about radiator thickness. Black ice GTX and Koolance radiators have a high fpi, which means they best work with high rpm fans. XSPC, Thermochill, and Feser radiators are good for lower fan speeds and silent applications. The range in which the low fpi radiators becomes worse then the high is from about 1300 rpm to 1800rpm. The koolance CU1020V which is about 35mm (iirc) is about as good as much thicker TA 120.3 at about 1500 rpm.

With that image i show the lack of validity in your "experience" a 580 has about a 250w heat load, and a HIGHLY OC'ed i7 is about 300watts. That is about an 18% increase in the heatload vs the graph, whereas 2x240 rads would be a 33% increase in cooling surface area. Miha a single loop will always provide the best UNIFORM liquid temps. If he really want to cool one component more than the other you could have 2 loops, but putting the gpu first should suffice. 2 loops can also be beneficial if you swap out gpus often as it allows you the ability to keep a part of the cooling system intact. 2 loops will be less efficient because as temp decreases cooling "potential" needed to bring it lower increases. I believe Miha's loop has problems, his 980x runs a t 75c or higher, it would be in your best interest to ignore any "personal experience" evidence he gives you with his current loop.

[mihapiha]

jfrydom, on 15 January 2011 - 04:58 AM, said:

Miha i completely disagree with you on your statement about radiator thickness. Black ice GTX and Koolance radiators have a high fpi, which means they best work with high rpm fans. XSPC, Thermochill, and Feser radiators are good for lower fan speeds and silent applications. The range in which the low fpi radiators becomes worse then the high is from about 1300 rpm to 1800rpm. The koolance CU1020V which is about 35mm (iirc) is about as good as much thicker TA 120.3 at about 1500 rpm.
With that image i show the lack of validity in your "experience" a 580 has about a 250w heat load, and a HIGHLY OC'ed i7 is about 300watts. That is about an 18% increase in the heatload vs the graph, whereas 2x240 rads would be a 33% increase in cooling surface area. Miha a single loop will always provide the best UNIFORM liquid temps. If he really want to cool one component more than the other you could have 2 loops, but putting the gpu first should suffice. 2 loops can also be beneficial if you swap out gpus often as it allows you the ability to keep a part of the cooling system intact. 2 loops will be less efficient because as temp decreases cooling "potential" needed to bring it lower increases. I believe Miha's loop has problems, his 980x runs a t 75c or higher, it would be in your best interest to ignore any "personal experience" evidence he gives you with his current loop.

That's the difference I guess. A watercooling to me is low noise. What purpose does a watercooling have if you put 1200+ rpm fans on there. To most of my friends I'm nutts already for putting 1200 rpm fans on my radiators.
The idea of a water cooling to me is having a well cooled environment with 700-800 rpm fans, so it's silent too. My fans spin @ 700 rpm most the time... Wattage is a relative term for radiators since it depends on the fans you put on there.

But with same fans speeds, with a realistic low noise system @ 800 - 1200 rpm, a bigger radiator wins over a small one. I guess these are the differences between European views at things and American views. You guys seem to be way more tolerant to noise than we are. I build until now about 10 water cooling systems for various people, after having changed my own dozens of times. I think reading reviews is less valuable that if you try it yourself.

My CPU runs @ 78°C on one core if I fold or stress test. Otherwise I never ever see more than 70°C on any core. that puts the CPU temperature @ around 55°C and the water temperature around 28°C.

To go to the graph you put in. Only the blue with 600 rpm fans and red with 1000 rpm fans is really interesting. What's the purpose of having a watercooling if you're gonna putt fans the size and noise level of delta fans in there?
But maybe our friend from Singapore won't mind being forced to put headphones on while gaming....

Nofear, on 15 January 2011 - 04:09 AM, said:

That loop in the pic goes like so:

Res=>Pump=>Rad=>Gpu=>Cpu=>Mobo

Although, as long as you have Res=>Pump the rest of the layout doesn't matter (the pump should always be below the res)

That is a very weak setup, although it's true that the water temperature becomes more or less constant in a loop it's always best to put waterblocks first in the loop which give away less heat.
Also I always suggest you put the radiator at the end, because it slows down the water flow the most.

Res=>Pump=>MB=>CPU=>GPU=>Rad

Usually that leaves to the best result. The MB doesn't heat up the water much, the CPU gets there the maximum flow as the next, the GPU comes last because it usually heats the water the most. If the MB would come last the the water which got heated up by the CPU and GPU would increase the MB's temperature for a few Degrees.

You MB can get up to 60°C hot, your CPU up to 67°C (with the cores @ 81°C) and the GPU can get up to 90°C hot. That's why you put it into that matter. The difference is small but the weaker the pump and the lower the rpms on the fans the bigger difference it makes...

[ahboyhan]

hi all

thanks for all the tips and tricks to water cooling.

currently thinking on what brands of blocks to buy.

my favourite is Koolance but difficult to get.
EK and swiftech can buy easier.

[mihapiha]

Koolance and EK are the best in my opinion. I personally prefer either one who looks better. Because they're pretty equal in their cooling performance,
and they're both pretty much always on top. I don't think you can go to wrong with either....

[Nofear]

mihapiha, on 15 January 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

Res=>Pump=>MB=>CPU=>GPU=>Rad

Usually that leaves to the best result.

By around half a degree better or 1 degree at most, Id rather have a nice clean loop than a jumbled mess trying to cool the right things first.

ahboyhan, I would go with EK since they are easier to get (for you) and the performance is on par with koolance.

Edited by Nofear, 15 January 2011 - 08:35 PM.

[ahboyhan]

Nofear, on 15 January 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

By around half a degree better or 1 degree at most, Id rather have a nice clean loop than a jumbled mess trying to cool the right things first.

ahboyhan, I would go with EK since they are easier to get (for you) and the performance is on par with koolance.

ya. i guess i don't have a choice but to go with EK.

can i ask something about rad and fans??


i read a lot of reviews saying what static pressure, high rpm fan low rpm fan.

please enlighten me on what kind of rad to choose if i use high rmp fan and what rad to use if i use low rpm fan.

also advice me which options will perform better and also does those temp sensors and coolant level sensor necessary??

Thanks

[jfrydom]

ahboyhan, on 16 January 2011 - 10:33 AM, said:

ya. i guess i don't have a choice but to go with EK.

can i ask something about rad and fans??


i read a lot of reviews saying what static pressure, high rpm fan low rpm fan.

please enlighten me on what kind of rad to choose if i use high rmp fan and what rad to use if i use low rpm fan.

also advice me which options will perform better and also does those temp sensors and coolant level sensor necessary??

Thanks

Like i said before, Black ice GTX and Koolance rads are for >1300 rpm thermochill, XSPC and TFC rads are <1800

[ahboyhan]

jfrydom, on 16 January 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

Like i said before, Black ice GTX and Koolance rads are for >1300 rpm thermochill, XSPC and TFC rads are <1800

i see.. thanks. i guess i've gathered most of the information required for my first water cooling build.
thicker tubes perform better??

are those pump tops from EK helps in performances?

[mihapiha]

Bigger tubes bigger performance. Yes, but in so minimalistic ways that you wouldn't know the difference between 10 and 20 mm tubes.

And no pump toping do not help the performance, but the improve mounting abilities and looks...

[jfrydom]

mihapiha, on 17 January 2011 - 06:30 AM, said:

Bigger tubes bigger performance. Yes, but in so minimalistic ways that you wouldn't know the difference between 10 and 20 mm tubes.

And no pump toping do not help the performance, but the improve mounting abilities and looks...

Miha THAT IS A COMPLETE LIE (i expect better from you). Both ddc's and d5's benefit from after market tops. Tell me which one your using and ill show you the best top. Also remember some companies like Swiftech and koolance rebrand laing pumps with their own model number.

[ahboyhan]

jfrydom, on 17 January 2011 - 07:41 AM, said:

Miha THAT IS A COMPLETE LIE (i expect better from you). Both ddc's and d5's benefit from after market tops. Tell me which one your using and ill show you the best top. Also remember some companies like Swiftech and koolance rebrand laing pumps with their own model number.

ooo.. so what's the best top for D5??

[ahboyhan]

hi guys

I've got the components sorted out.

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

please comment.. thanks.

[jfrydom]

ahboyhan, on 17 February 2011 - 04:37 PM, said:

hi guys

I've got the components sorted out.

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

please comment.. thanks.

have you figured out some way to teleport the liquid from the ports??

[ahboyhan]

jfrydom, on 17 February 2011 - 10:44 PM, said:

have you figured out some way to teleport the liquid from the ports??

i should be going for some 1/2" tubing. Recommendation??

comp fittings for barbs??

those flow meter and temp sensor useful??

please enlighten..