23 replies to this topic

[Moyt]

Here's the story...

Originally I got around to building a PC after busting my HP HDX18 Laptop.
I was going to just leave it for scraps but instead I decided to try and get it repaired through home insurance seems as it's a very nice laptop (not spec wise anymore).
My insurance company surprised me when they said it was beyond repair and would offer me this Acer laptop in its place.
I would never buy an Acer but I couldn't say 'no' to that. So my plan is, when I receive that I will sell it, or see if it can be returned and invest in getting an Asus G74SX-91131Z gaming laptop.

If it wasn't for the 18" screen size of the HP laptop I would have ended up with a laptop replacement with dire specs. Though anything really these days would have been better than that HP laptop spec wise.

That Acer laptop in the worst case I should be able to get £1000 for. Budget would be around £1700. The best choice I can find is that Asus laptop mention above. I'll rip that HDD out and replace with a SSD if I get it.

I still intend to build my PC as well, that's if those damn gen 3 boards ever come into stock!

Any laptop suggestions?

Cheers

[Futureperfect]

You might want to check this out. This is the MSI GT780DXR-099US Gaming Notebook.
















Specs:
Processor & Cache Memory 2nd Generation Intel® Core i7-2630QM, 2.0~2.9GHz,32nm, 6MB, 45W
Operating System Genuine Windows7® Home Premium 64
Chipset Mobile Intel® HM67 Express Chipset (Sandy Bridge)
Main Memory 16GB DDR3 1333 MHz SDRAM, 4 x 4GB SODIMM (up to 16GB 1866MHz)
Display 17.3" 1920x1080 FHD Matte-Type (Antie-Glare, Matte-type)
Video Graphics & Memory nVidia GeForce GTX 570M 1.5GB GDDR5, DX11
Hard Drive 1.5TB 7200rpm (750GB X2) 2.5" 9.5mm SATA II, 16MB
Optical Drive 6X Blu-Ray Writer / 8X DVDRW Super Multi
Card Reader SD/SDHC/SDXC/XD/MSPRO/MS/MMC (support SD 3.0)
Video Camera 720P HD web camera
Fax/Modem/LAN/WLAN Built-In Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR
Built-in Wireless ABGN
LAN: 10/100/1000Mb
LED Status Indicator HDD
Power-on/Suspend
Capital Lock
Wireless on status indicator
Bluetooth on status indicator
Interface 1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack
1 x VGA port/Mini D-sub 15-pin for external monitor
2 x USB 3.0 ports
3 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI 1.4
1X eSATA Port
Audio HD Audio
Dynaudio Premium Sound System with 4 speakers
Keyboard 103 keys Chiclet
Software-changeable LED color Backlit Keyboard
Numberic Keyboard
Battery Pack & Life 9 cells
AC Adapter Output: 19V, 9.47A , 180W
Input: 100~240 V AC, 50/60 Hz universal
Dimension & Weight
8.6 lbs (9 cell)
16.85 (L) x 11.34” (W) x 2.17 (H)
Security BIOS Booting / HDD User Password Protection and security lock
Kensington lock hole
Warranty & e-support 2 Year Limited Warranty (include 1 Year Global Warranty)
First Year Accidental Damage Warranty





Cost is $1,899 or 1153£ at GenTechPC. I've purchase from them a few times and they are fantastic!

I checked with them & they do International Shipping! Cost to the UK is 79£.






So total for you would be 1232£ Saving 468£ for a SSD drive if you wish.




This is the MSI GT790R version so the specs are a little different but the shell & features are the same.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Jun8MFqsrbg


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dJxpk-__5n8

Edited by Futureperfect, 20 August 2011 - 06:33 PM.

[Moyt]

Wow, thanks for the informative response. I certainly like the 'looks' of that MSI laptop over the Asus.
However exactly how would this perform you think against that Asus G74SX-91131Z laptop?
For example MSI's 1.5gb gtx 570m as opposed to Asus' 3gb gtx 560m?

Cheers.

[Moyt]

Also to add I'd get royally screwed with customs charges for importing that msi in. But still a strong option.
Especially if the CPU and GPU are easily upgradeable which I think it is. So I'm wondering what upgrade options are possible and exactly how easy it would be to do?

Edited by Moyt, 21 August 2011 - 01:07 AM.

[NoxeN]

pretty sick laptop

[Futureperfect]

Moyt, on 20 August 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Wow, thanks for the informative response. I certainly like the 'looks' of that MSI laptop over the Asus.
However exactly how would this perform you think against that Asus G74SX-91131Z laptop?
For example MSI's 1.5gb gtx 570m as opposed to Asus' 3gb gtx 560m?

Cheers.

The 570m should be around 15% better than the 560m.


When it comes to upgrade options I'm not 100% sure. I don't see why it wouldn't have any issues if you replaced the CPU w/ a 2820QM but the GPU if you found a GTX 580m might not work properly. You would have to check the MXM slot & BIOS.

[dirtylarryuk]

Futureperfect, on 21 August 2011 - 06:41 AM, said:

The 570m should be around 15% better than the 560m.


When it comes to upgrade options I'm not 100% sure. I don't see why it wouldn't have any issues if you replaced the CPU w/ a 2820QM but the GPU if you found a GTX 580m might not work properly. You would have to check the MXM slot & BIOS.

Just remeber Even the MSi laptop (which frankly is about the best around) is still going to eat a battery in 1-2 hours get very hot and have nothing but driver issues over the next few years.

I hate to rag on about how bad gaming laptops are but I still susgest people avoid them like the plague and get a portable desktop and long battery media laptop and avoid the gaming part.

I have spoken to 2 people this week who ignored my advice and bought quite 'pricey' gaming laptops and both have had nothing but issues with either rig (Asus and Alienware) both spent all their budget on the laptop and now can't afford a desktop for gaming.

I hate myself for saying this but laptop wise have a look at Apple for rigs that have a good battery life do most things and somewhat keep their value.

And when anyone says anything in a laptop can be upgraded, take that with a huge pinch of salt, as even if parts work now they will be out of stock in 6 months and so expensive to get it's just not worth it.

I would urge anyone thinking of buying a gaming laptop to wait for 28nm mobile GPU's as these may rremove the heat issues the current 40-45nm mobile cards have had.

If you want the best value for your insurance claim try and get a Apple laptop and just resell it to claim back the cash.

You can then easily convert that cash into a smartphone or tablet or mini laptop and pocket a extra £1k+ to divert to your desktop.

Edited by dirtylarryuk, 21 August 2011 - 09:31 PM.

[Moyt]

Larry you just spoilt my hopes and dreams of owning a gaming laptop

I know too well how bad owning a laptop can be, but never owned a 'gaming' laptop. Thought it might have been nice to have an upgrade (MSI, Asus) from an already much unexpected upgrade (Acer). Maybe I should be grateful to have that Acer; just got it today but still unopened.

As far as I was concerned with the HP laptop, I was going to just leave it for scraps and just make do with just a desktop gaming PC. However now I got this Acer I feel the need to have something portable as well.

I'm also strongly considering your advice even for desktop PC's, which is to try and wait for the 28nm GPU's.
So with this I'll just bite the bullet and make use of a laptop for now, and then blow my money on a high end PC built from scratch when the time is right. At the moment I have the ASUS VK278Q monitor sitting in my room which I'm making use of right now even.
However I'm stuck with 8gb on corsair vengeance memory which I'll return. The g19 keyboard also, but I'll be keeping that - can use that with the laptop when I'm using it with the monitor.

Back to the laptop, seems as I want one now, I'm thinking to return the Acer (if possible), and get this MSI (or the one from Futureperfect's link) which is cheaper, will perform better at gaming, and I'll use the difference to invest in a SSD for it.
Really I don't know how well it will do in performance in the end; most likely melt running Metro 2033 on medium settings, but it will certainly work out better than the Acer. And even better I'll have monster of a PC in comparison when the time is right.

Anyways that's the plan right now

Cheers for knocking some sense into me, but I'll still try and get some sort of MSI without going OTT this time... I think!

Edited by Moyt, 22 August 2011 - 12:59 PM.

[Derbixrace]

http://www.sagernote...del_name=NP8170

[dirtylarryuk]

Derbixrace, on 22 August 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

http://www.sagernote...del_name=NP8170

Another nice gaming laptop but yet again runs the sort of hardware that will eat even the best 9+ cell battery in 60-120 mins. Thus forcing you next to a wall and a power socket and then you might as well get a desktop and plug that in. And gaming laptops also suck vs normal ones for lite media use as they still eat there batteries very fast even with eco modes on.

My issue like many other people's with gaming laptops is that until battery tech changes the idea of them being portable is kinda piontless as your stuck using them at the wall. And if your doing that there are about 100 advantages of using a desktop (even a mini desktop) vs ANY laptop.

And if you buy these things they devalue worse than anything else I know to do with PC's.

For now I still hold the opinion that gaming laptops are basically like putting a Formula One engine in a go cart, sadley still very pointless! Sub 32NM CPU and GPU's may change this, so gaming laptops drop in price and get much longer battery lives but really a revolution in batteries needs to happen to make gaming laptops useful and alot more upgradabilitie needs to be added to the format.

The problem with gaming laptops if you use them to play modern games is they don;t last very long without a power socket, and also tend to die in 6-18 months as current tech just makes so much heat they either cook your lap or themselves.

Edited by dirtylarryuk, 22 August 2011 - 03:36 PM.

[Moyt]

Only major advantage for me is that when I work I'm away from home, so it'd be handy to have a gaming laptop with me on the go when I'm stuck in hotels.

But should I be at home all the time there's no way I'd like to have a laptop sitting on my desk in place of a desktop PC.

Lets see how well I do with my next laptop.
The number of dead laptops continues!

[dirtylarryuk]

Moyt, on 24 August 2011 - 02:45 AM, said:

Only major advantage for me is that when I work I'm away from home, so it'd be handy to have a gaming laptop with me on the go when I'm stuck in hotels.

But should I be at home all the time there's no way I'd like to have a laptop sitting on my desk in place of a desktop PC.

Lets see how well I do with my next laptop.
The number of dead laptops continues!

GT540m and decent I5 is around £650 from scan. 540 has 100 cores so is half decent can play games like crysis 2 on high at 20-30 fps at 720p. A laptop like that will play older games fine and can preview new ons but still give 3-4 hours when not gaming and be useful for media and below 3KG. Asus and others have laptops with a GT540m and a I5 dual core with HT sub £700. I'd nab one of them and pocket the savings or spend on what ever they give you to resell (eg a mac book) and buy one of the 540m rigs and pocket the change or spend the change on desktop.

Once you go I7 and above the 540m the machins get mega hot or just eat the battery in seconds and don;t offer that much value beyond the I5 and 540m. The I5m's and GT540m are kinda the mobile 460 GTX and I5 2500k for value in the desktop world.

Don't forget the latest I5's are 32nm so run a tad cooler and 540M is about as good as a mobile GPU can be at 40nm and not catch fire or eat a battery in 2 seconds.

Avoid the 300 series mobiles (found in most I3-I5's sub £700) they suck for gaming and are around the power of the IGP in the SB mobiles!

The 50 core nvidia mobiles can cope with TF2 CS:S etc but not modern games you need the 540m for modern stuff to be 20-30 fps( or 30-60 fps if you tweak game settings)

Don't forget when talking about mobile CPU or GPU they never compare to the desktop versions at all the 540m is about the power of a 8800 GTX desktop so ok for 720p (would suck for 1080p for modern games).

Example:

http://www.scan.co.u...540m-hdmi-win-7

I5m 32nm (4 threads) GT540M 40nm (100 cores) 17" LED screen and Bluray £675.

http://www.scan.co.u...etooth-win-7-h#

I7 2GHz (8 threads) GT540m blueray 15.6" LED screen £779 (that CPU is better for apps than the I5 not as good for games though!)

soon as you go near 200 core Nvidia mobile GPU at 40nm your talking at least £1k plus for a rig, and those GPUs eat the battery like a hungry fat kid in a sweet shop. For 200-300 cores best wait for 28nm mobile GPU's in 2012 as they could be under 30w in use and also not add £500 to the price of a laptop!

Edited by dirtylarryuk, 24 August 2011 - 07:13 PM.

[Mr. Breaker]

Personally I love all my Sager's, I have a NP8662 w/Q9100/GTX260M and my new NP8150 w/i7-2720/GTX560M it screams.

Edited by Mr. Breaker, 25 August 2011 - 02:34 AM.

[Moyt]

@ Mr. Breaker
You struggled with any of the latest games on ultra-high settings on your Sager?

@ Larry, thanks again for the useful info and suggestions there.
I'm still waiting to get rid of that Acer; it's just sitting in my room for now.
Point taken about what specs I should get combined for best possible gaming experience within my budget. Again I am confident the Acer should get me at least £1000 + I'm willing to blow some extra money on top, but we'll see where I get to with the Acer first.

For me the PC or laptop for smaller nm components is a waiting game at the worst possible time and I need something now.... well actually I needed something about 2 weeks ago! I've been stuck with using the old man's crappy Acer Aspire 7520 laptop, which has crashed on me around 5 times in one week from overheating and doing no more than just browsing the web!
My main aim is for the PC, and I will dig deep without compromise when the time is right. I can afford right now to get a top end laptop especially when that Acer gets sold off. When it comes to building the PC I won't struggle in that department as there's plenty of time to save those pennies before the next gen GPU's and CPU's are released.

First step is to say good bye to Mr Acer

Btw off topic why is it that I'm always reading problems about OCZ and Corsair SSD's? Even after the most recent firmware. I mainly noticed this when I was reading reviews from customers on Newegg.
Maybe I should consider buying a reliable SSD rather than ones with ultra-blazing fast speeds packaged with plenty of problems

[dirtylarryuk]

Moyt, on 25 August 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

@ Mr. Breaker
You struggled with any of the latest games on ultra-high settings on your Sager?

@ Larry, thanks again for the useful info and suggestions there.
I'm still waiting to get rid of that Acer; it's just sitting in my room for now.
Point taken about what specs I should get combined for best possible gaming experience within my budget. Again I am confident the Acer should get me at least £1000 + I'm willing to blow some extra money on top, but we'll see where I get to with the Acer first.

For me the PC or laptop for smaller nm components is a waiting game at the worst possible time and I need something now.... well actually I needed something about 2 weeks ago! I've been stuck with using the old man's crappy Acer Aspire 7520 laptop, which has crashed on me around 5 times in one week from overheating and doing no more than just browsing the web!
My main aim is for the PC, and I will dig deep without compromise when the time is right. I can afford right now to get a top end laptop especially when that Acer gets sold off. When it comes to building the PC I won't struggle in that department as there's plenty of time to save those pennies before the next gen GPU's and CPU's are released.

First step is to say good bye to Mr Acer

On the SSD issue Corsair certainly swap em out if an issue and there was all the same fuss about the last gen as well, and I never had a issue most of the people on newegg are technical noobs trying to run 6GB sata devices on Sata 1 sockets with bad installs with machines ridden with malware.

there was a real issue with some of the first drives but that seems to have cleared up now.

Btw off topic why is it that I'm always reading problems about OCZ and Corsair SSD's? Even after the most recent firmware. I mainly noticed this when I was reading reviews from customers on Newegg.
Maybe I should consider buying a reliable SSD rather than ones with ultra-blazing fast speeds packaged with plenty of problems

[dirtylarryuk]

Mr. Breaker, on 25 August 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

Personally I love all my Sager's, I have a NP8662 w/Q9100/GTX260M and my new NP8150 w/i7-2720/GTX560M it screams.

Look even if you blow £3k $5k plus on a laptop they still suck vs even a medium desktop even if you have Raid SSD and SLI mobile and a 8 thread i7 mobile the poor thing is mobile and on a mobo' that makes a Mini Atx looks like a super 'puter.

The mobile GPU may be called mobile 6990 570-580 but in reality your lucky if it's even close to a desktop 460 GTX! hell most fo the time the mobile GPU's don't even have GDDR5.

Take the very best Sager or Alienware or MSI gaming laptop spend 60% less on a desktop and the desktop would hammer it in every benchmark known to man.

If you grab the mid range GPU's and CPU's for mobile you tend to get the best bang for buck (rather like the desktop) but unlike the desktop if you overspend on laptops the money vapourise far faster.

So is even if you spend unlimited cash on a laptop for gaming the experience is always far less than on a desktop as laptops have so many bottlenecks it's like trying to compare a X360 or Ps3 to a Gaming PC. But laptops have to cut so many corners for power use heat size and weight they are going to be years behind a desktop.

Tablets are arguably currently 5-6 years behind desktops and laptop depending how much you spend, 2-4 years behind.

Have a check of footage on utube of 540-560M etc running crysis or withcher 2 you notice lags and stalls and that's even at 720p if you asked even the best laptops to play the demanding titles "maxed out" at 1080p your laptop would start to melt after 30-180 mins.

If you want to play TF2, CS:S L4d 1&2, Sc2, WOW and COD4 all those great games that are 2-4 years old even the £540 m will do that OK at 720p, but even if you spend £3k + on a gaming laptop it's going to be sucky with current hi-end stuff. But those are the games you play on a desktop never a laptop (unless your slighty mad, or are trying to sterlise yourself using the heat from the gaming laptop on your gonads).

The simple example is you can buy a 2500k clock the thing to 4.7GHZ add a GTX 560 ti clock that to 900 mhz+ add 8GB DDR3 and a force 3 500 RW SSD for around the same price as a laptop with a mobile 540m and mobile 2.6 GHZ i5 and the desktop is around 4-6x more powerful in every respect.

If you spent slighty more on a desktop say a 2600k at 5 GHZ with H20 cooling and GTX 560 Ti sli, costs around £1200 all in there is not a laptop on earth no matter the price that could even come close to that right now.


The trick the laptops have used is to add 720p screens so the crappy mobile GPU's can even spit 30 FPS in TF2. I think I stopped using 720p on my desktop around 1995-7!

Edited by dirtylarryuk, 25 August 2011 - 10:01 AM.

[Mr. Breaker]

Larry is right on a few thing mobile GPU's are rebadged into a funny scheme, example GTX260M = 9800GT and GTX560M = GTX550TI. Far as lag I don’t experience none on my system, the earlier platforms may have from premature drivers. Honestly my Sandy Bridge i7-2720 in performance wise in not too far behind my i7-980X in real world use. But as Larry also stated desktops are by far more cost efficient to build, only reason I have gamming notebooks is for travel and work. Far as temps go it’s not too bad, max load I run around 78c on CPU and 63C on my GPU, plus the Sager's have a max fan hot key built in, but I don’t use it.

Here are my specs that was built from Xotic PC

1x Sager NP8150 / Clevo P150HM
- Additional Hard Drive in Optical Drive Bay: No Additional Hard Drive in ODD Bay - When Selecting, Optical Drive is NOT Included
- Back Up Software: No Back Up Software
- Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Bluetooth: None Standard--
- Camera: Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Dead Pixel Warranty: Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- Display: 15.6” FHD 16:9 LED Backlit Wide screen (1920x1080) Super Clear Glare Type Screen
- Exterior Finish: Standard Finish
- Fingerprint Reader: Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- Graphics Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 560M 1,536MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11
- Memory Card Reader: Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Operating System: No Operating System Standard - Drivers & Utility Software Only
- Optical Drive: ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Software
- Primary Hard Drive: None added my own Intel 510-120GB
- Processor: -2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM, 2.2-3.3GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)
- Ram: 8GB Upgrades (Will add to build time)
- Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Spare AC Adapter: None Standard*
- Thermal Compound: -Stock OEM Thermal Compound
- Warranty: 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime -24/7 DOMESTIC Based- Toll Free Telephone Tech Support (Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)
- Includes FREE Shipping Both Ways for Warranty Repairs
- Wireless Network: Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1102

Edited by Mr. Breaker, 25 August 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[dirtylarryuk]

Mr. Breaker, on 25 August 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

Larry is right on a few thing mobile GPU's are rebadged into a funny scheme, example GTX260M = 9800GT and GTX560M = GTX550TI. Far as lag I don't experience none on my system, the earlier platforms may have from premature drivers. Honestly my Sandy Bridge i7-2720 in performance wise in not too far behind my i7-980X in real world use. But as Larry also stated desktops are by far more cost efficient to build, only reason I have gamming notebooks is for travel and work. Far as temps go it's not too bad, max load I run around 78c on CPU and 63C on my GPU, plus the Sager's have a max fan hot key built in, but I don't use it.

Here are my specs that was built from Xotic PC

I have a Asus 15.6" GT540m and 32nm I5 laptop, I'm using it to test games for reviews as of next week and I also need it for travel, but I will instantly game on any of my desktops vs a laptop if i can as to make the mobiles gpu's run ok you do have to tune settings.

I'm used to 16x AF and 8XAA in games at 1080p on my desktop and or 3d, something I don't expect a laptop to do for 2-4 years if I don't want it to cost £4000...

Even the high end mobile gpus are roughly still far less in true power than a stock desktop GTX 460. My Mobile GT540 is about a 9800GT-8800GTX so ok for 720p and isn't power mad.

Edited by dirtylarryuk, 25 August 2011 - 04:03 PM.

[Moyt]

dirtylarryuk said:

On the SSD issue Corsair certainly swap em out if an issue and there was all the same fuss about the last gen as well, and I never had a issue most of the people on newegg are technical noobs trying to run 6GB sata devices on Sata 1 sockets with bad installs with machines ridden with malware.

there was a real issue with some of the first drives but that seems to have cleared up now.

So it looks like the technical noobs have just gone on a crazed random SSD riot then
I mainly brought the SSD 'problems' issue up because Newegg are selling this OCZ Vertex 3 Series – MAX IOPS Edition at a now (imo) very reasonable price, but it came along with its fair share of bad customer feedbacks.

dirtylarryuk, on 25 August 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Look even if you blow £3k $5k plus on a laptop they still suck vs even a medium desktop

Which is why I have to try to be very good boy and not blow away funds unnecessarily, or end up like a hungry fat kid in a sweet shop - as you would say.

@ Mr Breaker. Cool ok, and a very nice spec'd Sager there

BTW a 6990m is classed as the fastest single mobile GPU right now am I right? If not, at least head-to-head with the 580m.
How is it that then the 580m is hell of a lot more expensive????? Am I missing something here or have NVidia just got their pricing backwards on this one?

As for the Acer someone’s taken a strong interest in it. I may settle down for £1150 cash in hand. No crappy fees or anything of the sort so this may be the best I will get. If it goes ahead and nothing goes wrong (knowing my luck it will!) then I can get on right away to buying!

[mihapiha]

I don't understand it really. If you wanna play games, you need a real rig. If you want to take that with you, build a rig with a µATX motherboard.
If you really want to take it everywhere with you, get a GameBoy or something. Laptops just suck for any sort of games.

I would suggest you take your entire budget, and just split it up. Main part of the budget for a gaming rig with which you really can have fun, and the rest for a cheap as laptop if you need it for surfing and schoolwork or whatever...